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Topic: Spaying and Neutering, Behavioral and Physical Effects< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 1
Setter Man Search for posts by this member.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,12:21  Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

A very knowledgeable dog person sent me this. I post this strictly as a FYI. There were some surprising findings. I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this, but I would be interested in thoughts by vets or any of your experiences regarding this.

http://www.caninesports.com/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,7:45 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Well im no vet, however id say I agree. We have had lots of intact males of various breeds and never ever an issue. To each his own but No problem here.

My sisters nutted male is the most aggressive and hard head dog ever to live around here
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(Setter Man @ Apr. 12 2012,12:21)
QUOTE
I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this,...

Second funniest thing written on the board this year. :;):

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:15 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(Brad Eden @ Apr. 12 2012,6:10)
QUOTE

(Setter Man @ Apr. 12 2012,12:21)
QUOTE
I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this,...

Second funniest thing written on the board this year. :;):

That is quite comical. Gotta go get more coffee now.

Kevin


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:34 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(HazelNut @ Apr. 12 2012,8:15)
QUOTE

(Brad Eden @ Apr. 12 2012,6:10)
QUOTE

(Setter Man @ Apr. 12 2012,12:21)
QUOTE
I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this,...

Second funniest thing written on the board this year. :;):

That is quite comical. Gotta go get more coffee now.

Kevin

That's nothin, watch your home mail box...


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Sometimes you gotta say the heck with it, grab a springer and just go hunting. Unknown UJ Member


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:51 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Can't access the article either from the link or caninesports home page.  However, a similar discussion on VIN comments that this "study," a master's thesis, does not cite any references or have a materials and methods section so results are meaningless.  I'm not sure how someone could receive a master's degree based on these omissions.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,9:12 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Holy chit, I had no idea gonadectomy was a word. I have a new favorite!
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,9:16 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

101 question questionaire on thousands of dogs...but we don't know what objective 3rd party judged the dogs and answered the questions.

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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,9:18 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(Chubs @ Apr. 12 2012,9:12)
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Holy chit, I had no idea gonadectomy was a word. I have a new favorite!

10 points if you can work that into a casual conversation today.

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"So there I was, dragging my canoe behind me while cutting a hole through a wall of human flesh."
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,10:05 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

deleted - misread something
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,12:12 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Maybe the methods, materials, etc. were not on these pages?

I have no idea, but I agree with the results as they line up with my experiences.

Mike
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,12:22 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(kbk @ Apr. 12 2012,8:51)
QUOTE
Can't access the article either from the link or caninesports home page.  However, a similar discussion on VIN comments that this "study," a master's thesis, does not cite any references or have a materials and methods section so results are meaningless.  I'm not sure how someone could receive a master's degree based on these omissions.

I believe the linked article is just a summary, written for a lay audience.  That is why at the head of the page it reads:

"Summary of findings detailed in a Masters thesis"

Not posting this in defense of the findings, but just to point out you can't really judge the quality or validity of a Thesis based on what's contained in a 4-page summary.

RI


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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,12:58 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(Rhode Island @ Apr. 12 2012,12:22)
QUOTE

(kbk @ Apr. 12 2012,8:51)
QUOTE
Can't access the article either from the link or caninesports home page.  However, a similar discussion on VIN comments that this "study," a master's thesis, does not cite any references or have a materials and methods section so results are meaningless.  I'm not sure how someone could receive a master's degree based on these omissions.

I believe the linked article is just a summary, written for a lay audience.  That is why at the head of the page it reads:

"Summary of findings detailed in a Masters thesis"

Not posting this in defense of the findings, but just to point out you can't really judge the quality or validity of a Thesis based on what's contained in a 4-page summary.

RI

Makes better sense of what I was reading second hand on VIN.  Thanks.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,5:18 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

A Master's thesis on a scientific topic at any decent school will at least be peer reviewed by the handful of professors on the student's thesis committee.  Any problems (from major to minor) would be spotted by the reviewers and corrected by the student before being allowed to graduate.

Not saying errors won't slip through, but I think automatic suspicion is unwarranted.
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PostIcon Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:17 Skip to the previous post in this topic.    QUOTE


(Brad Eden @ Apr. 12 2012,8:10)
QUOTE

(Setter Man @ Apr. 12 2012,12:21)
QUOTE
I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this,...

Second funniest thing written on the board this year. :;):

Brad,

I hear ya. Makes me wonder what #1 was? :)  :;):




My intent wasn't to stir the pot and sit back with a bowl of popcorn. As the friend that sent it to me said, the summary was "shocking". And, as Rhode Island said, it was indeed only a summary.

I have no comments on the methodology. The findings certainly fly in the face of all we have been told. I really wonder if this will be similar to the change of protocol for annual vaccinations.

Vaccinating on an annual basis always concerned me. I questioned vets about it a number of years ago. I started to read that it wasn't necessary and could even be detrimental to the health of a dog. At first I was told it was something I really should do on an annual basis. That evolved to: “It may not be necessary, but I can’t get anything but the 5 in 1’s.” Finally, a renown surgeon, after looking at the health record of Feathers said politely, but firmly, “I don’t agree with this” regarding vaccinations that were given to her.

Times change. Some of the most dedicated professionals I know are vets (I have one that is a friend) and the rigors and demands they face daily are staggering.

Regarding the spaying/neutering issue: For a female dog, it seems like a simpler call if you keep her inside (heat) and consider the health benefits later in her life. For a male, it may not be so simple and it would be something I would think carefully about after reading the link. That is one of the reasons I posted it.

My son said male dogs he has seen that were neutered “didn’t look right” (the bone issue in the link?) and he thinks it affects their hunting ability. He worked at a kennel owned by a breeder that trained a NFC and we had the benefit of hunting over many dogs that were boarded at the kennel. Please continue with your thoughts and experiences regarding all of this.

Thanks,
Ron


--------------
Give me a Partner, an English Setter, a nice handling SXS, a fine October day and I will ask for no more...

Semper Fi: Marines and Dogs

"One day they're gangly, harem-scarum puppies; the next, they're all heart and hunt. The day after that, they're grey in their muzzle, and I am desperate to make the night hold back a little while longer." - Randy Lawrence
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