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Setter Man 
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: God's Country
Posts: 1019
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,12:21 |
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A very knowledgeable dog person sent me this. I post this strictly as a FYI. There were some surprising findings. I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this, but I would be interested in thoughts by vets or any of your experiences regarding this.
http://www.caninesports.com/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf
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Give me a Partner, an English Setter, a nice handling SXS, a fine October day and I will ask for no more...
Semper Fi: Marines and Dogs
"One day they're gangly, harem-scarum puppies; the next, they're all heart and hunt. The day after that, they're grey in their muzzle, and I am desperate to make the night hold back a little while longer." - Randy Lawrence
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gunner29
Group: MEMBER
Location: Fingerlakes NY
Posts: 331
Joined: Jul. 2011
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,7:45 |
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Well im no vet, however id say I agree. We have had lots of intact males of various breeds and never ever an issue. To each his own but No problem here.
My sisters nutted male is the most aggressive and hard head dog ever to live around here
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HazelNut
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Wellington, Colorado
Posts: 1258
Joined: Feb. 2003
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:15 |
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(Brad Eden @ Apr. 12 2012,6:10)
QUOTE
(Setter Man @ Apr. 12 2012,12:21)
QUOTE I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this,... Second funniest thing written on the board this year. 
That is quite comical. Gotta go get more coffee now.
Kevin
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Gun goes up, bird comes down...sometimes.
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Brad Eden
Group: Administrator/Moderator
Location: Central/Coastal Maine
Posts: 30079
Joined: Mar. 2002
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:34 |
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(HazelNut @ Apr. 12 2012,8:15)
QUOTE
(Brad Eden @ Apr. 12 2012,6:10)
QUOTE
(Setter Man @ Apr. 12 2012,12:21)
QUOTE I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this,... Second funniest thing written on the board this year. That is quite comical. Gotta go get more coffee now. Kevin
That's nothin, watch your home mail box...
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If you feel you will be indignant or become hostile about having your Reply/Posts edited or deleted or Topics locked and removed please do not participate on the Upland Talk Bulletin Board.
Board Guidelines since 2002
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kbk
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 475
Joined: Oct. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:51 |
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Can't access the article either from the link or caninesports home page. However, a similar discussion on VIN comments that this "study," a master's thesis, does not cite any references or have a materials and methods section so results are meaningless. I'm not sure how someone could receive a master's degree based on these omissions.
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Chubs
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Wrong part of Wisconsin
Posts: 1658
Joined: Oct. 2011
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,9:12 |
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Holy chit, I had no idea gonadectomy was a word. I have a new favorite!
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It takes a dog to make a bird dog.
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trust me
Group: MEMBER
Location: On the Group W bench...in KY
Posts: 3073
Joined: Sep. 2006
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,9:16 |
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101 question questionaire on thousands of dogs...but we don't know what objective 3rd party judged the dogs and answered the questions.
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"So there I was, dragging my canoe behind me while cutting a hole through a wall of human flesh."
W.C. Fields
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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redrockin7
Group: MEMBER
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Posts: 1470
Joined: Apr. 2011
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,10:05 |
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deleted - misread something
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MikeH.
Group: MEMBER
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1214
Joined: Nov. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,12:12 |
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Maybe the methods, materials, etc. were not on these pages?
I have no idea, but I agree with the results as they line up with my experiences.
Mike
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kbk
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 475
Joined: Oct. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,12:58 |
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(Rhode Island @ Apr. 12 2012,12:22)
QUOTE
(kbk @ Apr. 12 2012,8:51)
QUOTE Can't access the article either from the link or caninesports home page. However, a similar discussion on VIN comments that this "study," a master's thesis, does not cite any references or have a materials and methods section so results are meaningless. I'm not sure how someone could receive a master's degree based on these omissions. I believe the linked article is just a summary, written for a lay audience. That is why at the head of the page it reads: " Summary of findings detailed in a Masters thesis" Not posting this in defense of the findings, but just to point out you can't really judge the quality or validity of a Thesis based on what's contained in a 4-page summary. RI
Makes better sense of what I was reading second hand on VIN. Thanks.
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shinbone
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 1043
Joined: Aug. 2007
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,5:18 |
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A Master's thesis on a scientific topic at any decent school will at least be peer reviewed by the handful of professors on the student's thesis committee. Any problems (from major to minor) would be spotted by the reviewers and corrected by the student before being allowed to graduate.
Not saying errors won't slip through, but I think automatic suspicion is unwarranted.
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Setter Man
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: God's Country
Posts: 1019
Joined: Jul. 2006
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Posted on: Apr. 12 2012,8:17 |
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(Brad Eden @ Apr. 12 2012,8:10)
QUOTE
(Setter Man @ Apr. 12 2012,12:21)
QUOTE I don't wish to get in a debate about any of this,... Second funniest thing written on the board this year.
Brad,
I hear ya. Makes me wonder what #1 was? 
My intent wasn't to stir the pot and sit back with a bowl of popcorn. As the friend that sent it to me said, the summary was "shocking". And, as Rhode Island said, it was indeed only a summary.
I have no comments on the methodology. The findings certainly fly in the face of all we have been told. I really wonder if this will be similar to the change of protocol for annual vaccinations.
Vaccinating on an annual basis always concerned me. I questioned vets about it a number of years ago. I started to read that it wasn't necessary and could even be detrimental to the health of a dog. At first I was told it was something I really should do on an annual basis. That evolved to: “It may not be necessary, but I can’t get anything but the 5 in 1’s.” Finally, a renown surgeon, after looking at the health record of Feathers said politely, but firmly, “I don’t agree with this” regarding vaccinations that were given to her.
Times change. Some of the most dedicated professionals I know are vets (I have one that is a friend) and the rigors and demands they face daily are staggering.
Regarding the spaying/neutering issue: For a female dog, it seems like a simpler call if you keep her inside (heat) and consider the health benefits later in her life. For a male, it may not be so simple and it would be something I would think carefully about after reading the link. That is one of the reasons I posted it.
My son said male dogs he has seen that were neutered “didn’t look right” (the bone issue in the link?) and he thinks it affects their hunting ability. He worked at a kennel owned by a breeder that trained a NFC and we had the benefit of hunting over many dogs that were boarded at the kennel. Please continue with your thoughts and experiences regarding all of this.
Thanks,
Ron
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Give me a Partner, an English Setter, a nice handling SXS, a fine October day and I will ask for no more...
Semper Fi: Marines and Dogs
"One day they're gangly, harem-scarum puppies; the next, they're all heart and hunt. The day after that, they're grey in their muzzle, and I am desperate to make the night hold back a little while longer." - Randy Lawrence
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