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| Post Number: 16
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patriot 
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: peoples socialist republic
Posts: 2339
Joined: Feb. 2008
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Posted on: Mar. 01 2012,8:55 |
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Personally, I not sure they really touch. I have also read that some barrels have been cut, like in this case only an inch, and still touch. Like was mentioned, the 27" is a clincher for me that they were cut plus the filler being messed up.
However, I know there are factory records of Elsies, Parkers, and Foxes with odd number length barrels because those companies would do what ever the customer ordered within reason.
Too bad Walt Snyder doesn't post over hear. He could shed some light I'm sure.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take everything you have" Thomas Jefferson
A NATION OF SHEEP BREEDS A GOVERNMENT OF WOLVES
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| Post Number: 17
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quailguy
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
Posts: 2468
Joined: Mar. 2008
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Posted on: Mar. 01 2012,9:34 |
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(patriot @ Mar. 01 2012,8:55)
QUOTE Personally, I not sure they really touch. I have also read that some barrels have been cut, like in this case only an inch, and still touch. Like was mentioned, the 27" is a clincher for me that they were cut plus the filler being messed up.
However, I know there are factory records of Elsies, Parkers, and Foxes with odd number length barrels because those companies would do what ever the customer ordered within reason.
Too bad Walt Snyder doesn't post over hear. He could shed some light I'm sure.
I'm betting the barrels were cut an inch, which should have taken out most of the choke. Prolly WHY they were cut. If you are looking for a shooter grouse & woodcock gun is that a problem?
A good reason to knock $200-300 off the price.
You need one of those CSMC choke guage deals to drop into the bores to check that kinda thing. That was my excuse anyway.
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Quailguy
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 1785
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| Post Number: 18
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patriot
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: peoples socialist republic
Posts: 2339
Joined: Feb. 2008
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Posted on: Mar. 01 2012,10:22 |
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Anyhow, I agree with Bryan, the Ithacas are the 'Rodney Dangerfields' of the American Classics; no respect.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take everything you have" Thomas Jefferson
A NATION OF SHEEP BREEDS A GOVERNMENT OF WOLVES
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| Post Number: 19
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Larry Brown
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location:
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2012,9:45 |
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Re shells, I would not worry all that much about reloading for an NID. It is harder to get really low pressures in the 20ga than in the 12ga, but no problem getting down below 9,000 or so, and that's lower than the pressure standard back when that gun was made. Claybuster also has a relatively new 3/4 oz wad out for the 20ga, which will help you to reduce recoil.
Personally, I like the later NID's (after they got rid of the cocking indicators) better than the early ones, in addition to which they were all 2 3/4" by then. But you're not going to hurt an NID by shooting sensible 2 3/4" reloads, even if it does have short chambers. You could also have a gunsmith lengthen the forcing cones a bit, which would likely lower pressures somewhat and maybe improve patterns.
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Larry Brown
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| Post Number: 21
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RUFUS80
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Location: The Hoosier State
Posts: 513
Joined: Jan. 2007
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2012,10:34 |
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I have measured 20 gauge 2 3/4"shells and when fired only measured 2 5/8"
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"The gun is the essential link between the man and the kind of sport he pursues. It is not enough that it should be well adapted to one of the other. For the best success, it must be fully adapted to both" - Gough Thomas
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| Post Number: 22
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elkcaddis
Group: MEMBER
Location: Plainfield NH
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2012,1:06 |
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Thanks for the input. I think if I can get this one for $1,000 I will, otherwise I'll keep looking.
Again, thanks and good shooting.
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| Post Number: 23
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quailguy
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
Posts: 2468
Joined: Mar. 2008
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Posted on: Mar. 02 2012,3:25 |
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(patriot @ Mar. 01 2012,10:22)
QUOTE Anyhow, I agree with Bryan, the Ithacas are the 'Rodney Dangerfields' of the American Classics; no respect.
Yeah, I agree with you there.
Once you get into the graded NIDs, these are some very nice guns. A friend had what I think was 4E (?) and that was very nice gun. AAA walnut, really nice engraving and finish.
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Quailguy
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. ... Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 1785
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| Post Number: 24
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| Post Number: 25
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Larry Brown
Group: 2013 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location:
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2012,8:41 |
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(LostintheOzone @ Mar. 02 2012,10:20)
QUOTE
(Larry Brown @ Mar. 02 2012,6:45)
QUOTE Personally, I like the later NID's (after they got rid of the cocking indicators) better than the early ones, in addition to which they were all 2 3/4" by then. But you're not going to hurt an NID by shooting sensible 2 3/4" reloads, even if it does have short chambers. You could also have a gunsmith lengthen the forcing cones a bit, which would likely lower pressures somewhat and maybe improve patterns. I'm not sure if any tests have been made by anyone regarding using 2.75 in 2.5 chambers in a 20ga. I can recall several tests run by someone (published in DGJ years ago) using a 12ga. gun. The results were pretty conclusive in my mind that pressures were increased only a few hundred pounds and therefor safe. I've shot several of my 2.75 reloads in my 2.5 gun. I load them short now but I'm not opposed to this practice. Larry, maybe you know of some data that supports using 2.75 in 2.5 20ga. guns, I'm not aware of any. I would be very cautious about shooting 2.75 in a 2.5 gun if I were you. Either get low pressure shells in 2.5 or have the chambers lenghtened as suggested. This is something you don't want to experiment with a 20ga. gun. Smaller pipe, higher pressure. JMO. Jim
Lost, I'm not aware of anyone having tested 2 3/4" 20's in a short chambered pressure barrel. And you are correct that you're dealing with higher pressures in a 20ga. I definitely would not advise shooting factory 2 3/4" ammo in a short 20, although it's more of an issue in the earlier Flues guns, which were not as strong as the NID.
Reloads, however . . . it's possible to get down to 8K psi, or very close, with both 3/4 and 7/8 oz reloads. That gives you a safety margin of at least 2,500 psi compared to the service pressures for which those guns were designed. And in the 12ga tests, shooting 2 3/4" loads in a 2 1/2" chamber, the typical pressure increase was less than 1,000 psi.
I would not recommend lengthening the chamber, but I might lengthen the forcing cones. In Bell's tests, reported in Double Gun Journal, he usually got some pressure reduction just by lengthening the cones. Might also result in better patterns.
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Larry Brown
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| Post Number: 26
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StormsGSP
Group: MEMBER
Location: TBD
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Posted on: Mar. 03 2012,11:44 |
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(Bryan Lee @ Mar. 01 2012,5:07)
QUOTE
(LostintheOzone @ Mar. 01 2012,4:43)
QUOTE $1200 would be a price that a dealer would HOPE to get. It won't be easy to get that much for a 2.5" Ithaca. Those and Le Fevers are pretty much on the bottom of the desirability list as far as American classics go. Also know that you will have to buy premium low pressure ammo for it at $10 a box. http://www.rstshells.com/rst_classic_shotshells_shotshells.htmYou could reload it yourself, Ive done it for 2.5" but it's a PIA as you have to cut hulls and 20ga. has high pressure to start with. Not many powder/wad options out there for low pressure. I load for my Elsie but it's 2.75. I wouldn't try it with 2.5. All of the classics went to 2.75" a few years after yours was built or before. Your's is one of the first NID guns and may have 2.75 chambers as they changed after Oct. of that year. Probably had barrels left over from Flues models. Barrel should be stamped, don't take anyone's word for it. I'm no expert but I try to keep up on American classics. It's one of my passions. That's an $800 gun in my demented mind. Jim While the Blue Book isn't the final authority, I just checked it. You're right Ozone in 80% condition the BB says $850.00.
I'd agree on that price.
I disagree on the Lefever comment, Nitro Specials might be at the bottom of the list, but Lefever made top quality guns. They actually might be my favorite US maker. A midgrade EE Lefever is a phenomenal gun, and they are priced accordingly:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/9703867....PP.htm#
The higher end guns are some of the finest guns in the world, bar none.
http://www.lefevercollectors.com/index.php?p=1_18_Photos
I've been hunting for a high condition mid-grade+ for years. They don't come along often and you don't see the deals on them that you see for other American makers.
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"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. -Henry David Thoreau, Walden
http://alexinnz.wordpress.com/
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