Letters
Features
Departments
Photo Gallery
Upland Talk
Upland Links
Upland Gear
Upland Library
Upland Outfitters
Swap & Trade
Submissions
Contact Us
Ad Rates & Specs
Subcription / Donations
Uplanders
Wingshooting Theater
Double Shotgun
Orvis Upland Essentials
Knotsmith
Uplanders Warehouse
"Featured in Upland Outfitters"
Dr. Tim's
Wild Apple
Upland Fly
On-Point Outfitters
DU Supply
Dogs and Doubles
Northwinds Enterprises
"Featured in Upland Outfitters"
Sporting Shot
WingWorks
Thunderhead
Sporting Shot
Almost Heaven GSP's
Gun Dog Development
Bird Dogs Afield
Uplanders
Private Preserve
Outdoorsman's Edge
"Featured in Upland Outfitters"
 Weatherby's -- Experience the Tradition
"Featured in Upland Outfitters"
Upland Journal
Upland Gear
Upland Library Bookstore
Ad Rates & Specs
Find Upland Journal on Facebook
Click to Make a Subscription/Donation
Bulletin Board Guidelines

Search Members Help

» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Page 2 of 3<<123>>

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]

reply to topic new topic new poll
Topic: Trap shooting field guns, 20ga IC/M SxS< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
 Post Number: 16
Cold Iron Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: MEMBER
Location: SE Mn.
Posts: 511
Joined: Oct. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,5:45  Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(Papa Mammatus @ Feb. 06 2012,12:36)
QUOTE
Thanks Rufus. I'll get looking for a skeet range.

I’m assuming you were at SE Minnie yesterday morning. There is a gentleman that shoots there occasionally with a Winchester 21 SxS and runs the traps more times than not. But it is a trap grade gun and he has put a lot of lead through it over the years. Pretty sure it choked full and fuller.

Until a couple of weeks ago the only skeet range near here is in Austin and another in Winona. Zumbrota just finished building a skeet field and has thrown birds on the last 2 Saturdays but heard it was packed, and with one field was quite a wait to shoot. Byron is starting to throw sporting clays on the weekends now. SC there is sort of a cross between 5 stand and SC, but better than nothing. Next closest Sporting Clays courses are all 1.5 hours away. PM me if you want more information.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 17
PartridgeCartridge Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location:
Posts: 11964
Joined: Feb. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,6:10 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Trap style shots,.. those outgoing, rising types where the machine is in front of you, give many the sense that they are one of the easier types of shots to make.

Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, this type of presentation will play havoc with your shooting unless you make a few modifications to your approach.

You say you want to become a better bird shot. OK fine. But lets master the shot before you start to introduce a move and a mount into the mix.

For the next few rounds, premount the gun and hold it just above the center of the house. DON"T look at the bead, but instead STARE hard at the treeline in the distance.

On the flash of the bird, focus your eyes onto the bird and  gently move your hands towards it. When you touch the leading edge, deliver the shot.

You are gonna miss some in the beginning but you will start to get a feel for the move and start to break birds even with a 20 I/C.

When you get some consistency premounted, start to drop your mount down an inch at a time. Chalk your vest if you need to to establish a mount consistency.

The lower you move your mount, the slower and smoother your mount must become or you will never hit these types of presentations with any consistency. Most people tragically make the mistake of rushing their mount or jerking it as they go lower on this type of shot and it is the kiss of death.

A quailty SC lesson on trap style targets would be my advice if you want to improve this shot in the field. They will probably tell you the same thing I just did.

Good luck. And have fun.


--------------
Upland Raconteur
"You demented little Dwarf"
-Hunshatt
Tim, you're still an Ass
-Tedder
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 18
Papa Mammatus Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: MEMBER
Location: In The Clouds
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,6:42 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Wow.

Thanks for all the responses on this, and PC, that's worth the price of admission right there.

I'll hit it again, work on my technique, and find someone to talk to about the fit of my gun. I'd never shot a SxS until yesterday and it schooled me.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 19
Bonasa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Struggling to educate señor Hunshatt
Posts: 4023
Joined: Nov. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,7:15 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(Greg Hartman @ Feb. 06 2012,2:17)
QUOTE
I agree with ANF, Bosco and Huntschool.  While a 20 gauge SxS with IC choke isn't going to be able to head-to-head with a 12 gauge full-race trap gun, both in the hands of expert shooters in serious competition, shooting a horrendous 10x25 at 16 yard trap isn't caused by the gauge, choke or load.  You simply aren't putting the pattern on the birds.

That could be a lot of things - aiming error due to inexperience with SxS's; a POI that is way off due to a poorly fitting stock; poor MOI due to the short bbls; or something else - I really cannot say from a distance.  Cure that problem (whatever it is) and you should be able to break 20-23x25 on a regular basis.  27 yard handicap trap is another ballgame, but I assume you are not talking about that.

Don't discount Greg's advice either.  It comes from a competition trap shooter.  As Greg said, there are so many factors that could be at play here:  You said you stopped the gun and that could be related to the short barrels.  Additionally, gunfit is always a suspect when picking up a new gun.  
The first thing I would do is start systematically from the beginning and see what causes can be ruled out.  1) Impact testing - Shoot the gun at large paper targets with a smooth, normal mount, but without aiming.  See where the Point of Impact is with this gun.  If you have a problem here, there is no sense moving on until gunfit is addressed.  It's a simple procedure that will give you confidence when you start to shoot clays and birds.
2) I would start with skeet and see if you are able to get beyond the "stopping the gun" issue.  Some people just can't shoot short barreled guns which can feel whippy.
3) PCs advice is always worth taking when it comes to shooting, but I might try something a little easier than trap first to expose any issues there may be with the gun.


--------------
"The gun is seldom responsible for the misses. The fault lies with the chap who is looking down the barrel."   Burton Spiller
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 20
Papa Mammatus Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: MEMBER
Location: In The Clouds
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov. 2011
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,7:23 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Thank you. All the advice in this thread is very appreciated, for sure.

I'm unsure of what is meant exactly by Point of Impact. I'm not sure I could diagnose and then fix something like that. If I go out this weekend to shoot a static target, what am I looking for?
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 21
Huntschool Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Southern Illinois, waiting to shoot, no wait, waiting to practice
Posts: 2922
Joined: Dec. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,7:38 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

POI is usually done on a pattern board.  Standing 20 or so yards (I like at least 25) from the board with a dark spot or some other noticible center spot on the board shoot for the spot.  This should be done from a relaxed hold with the gun mounted and you looking down the barrels at the spoy with your head snug to the comb.  

Your shot pattern will show you where you are hitting in relationship to what you were looking at.  This will then begin to take you to gun fit although its not quite that simple.

Bottom line, if the gun does not shoot where you look it needs to be adjusted.  There will also need to be some shots down the road starting with the gun down.  Remember when moving the gun to "push" the muzzle to the bird not mount the butt in your shoulder and then bring the muzzle into play.


--------------
Bruce A. Hering; NSCA Lev III Inst.
Program Coordinator/Lead Instructor
Southeastern Illinois College
Shotgun Team Coach
2011 Division I ACUI National Champions
2011 SCTP Collegiate Champions
2012 ACUI Div II National HOA Champions
2012 SCTP Collegiate Champions
2013 ACUI Division II RU National Champions
2014 SCTP RU Collegiate National Champions
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 22
Bonasa Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: Struggling to educate señor Hunshatt
Posts: 4023
Joined: Nov. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,8:20 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

You can check the gun yourself.  It isn't difficult.  You should check both barrel regulation and gun fit.  You want to check barrel regulation first.
Set up your targets with about a 30" circle and a small bullseye.  Shoot the gun from 16 yards and we can actually make some assessments about stock alteration once you post pictures of the targets.
Barrel regulation:
1) We are shooting from a hard rest first to make sure that your barrels have been regulated to shoot to the correct POI.  
2) Shoot both barrels with a hard aim lining up like a rifle.  If it shoots a nice pattern from a rest, barrel regulation is not an issue and we can move on.
Impact Testing:
1) Start from the ready position, moving up to complete your gun mount and firing immediately without looking at the rib - just the target.  The key is to have a smooth and consistant gun mount.  
2) Do not shoot premounted and do not line up sighting down the rib.  Just move the gun from the ready position with the leading hand bringing the gun up.  As soon as it is mounted fire at the target.  Do this (3) times per target (helps in case you pull off with one of the shots) with both barrels.
3) Shoot several targets with both barrels (different target for each barrel).  After you complete this, post pictures of the impact testing and if your POI is off, we can compute what approximate changes the stock will need to accommodate you.
4) If the impact testing results in a nice POI, then no corrections are needed and we can move on to analysis of your shooting technique.

Edit - I should add that this is not ideal without somebody like PC looking over your shoulder and advising you on stance, gun mount, etc, but it's the best we can do by written communication.  Perhaps there is a knowledgeable UJer near you that could assist with evaluating the gun and your technique.


--------------
"The gun is seldom responsible for the misses. The fault lies with the chap who is looking down the barrel."   Burton Spiller
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 23
pheasent 89 Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: lafayette hills pa.
Posts: 478
Joined: Mar. 2009
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,8:50 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

A 25 in. Barrel sxs is a short gun I personally could not shoot it at trap at all. I use a 30 in . wingmaster, when I switch to my Citori 20 . to play at trap my scores go way down  because of the length. It takes me a couple rounds to get in the grove but you do.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 24
GB Jack Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: MEMBER
Location: In hunshatts shadow of emotion
Posts: 5957
Joined: Nov. 2005
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,9:55 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Trap is gay, period

--------------
http://tailfeathersandtrout.blogspot.com/
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 25
LostintheOzone Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: WA.
Posts: 2426
Joined: Mar. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,10:03 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(Papa Mammatus @ Feb. 06 2012,9:07)
QUOTE
First, I found that having a 20ga SxS on the trap range draws attention and a few sly grins. I didn't realize how many people are outfitted solely for trap shooting with specialized O/U's and ginormous vented ribs. Some of these guns were really impressive.

Yep, a 4K gun is impressive and you see plenty of those dedicated guns when you shoot trap. SC is the same except they use sporters. I took my Merkel sxs to shoot SC once and got some strange looks from the group I was shooting with. I didn't know any of those shooters and I had never shot the course. I had the second highest score in a 5 man sqaud with a fixed choked, straight gripped bird gun. I could tell that none of those guys were novices either with the guns they were using.

You don't need a target gun to shoot well, you just need a gun that fits and burn some powder.  :D

Jim


--------------
I don't shoot steel. That's an eastern bloc thing.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 26
PartridgeCartridge Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location:
Posts: 11964
Joined: Feb. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,10:11 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(LostintheOzone @ Feb. 06 2012,10:03)
QUOTE
You don't need a target gun to shoot well, you just need a gun that fits and burn some powder.  :D

Jim

Sorry bud, but's just not true.

He needs a gun that fits. And he needs to know how to shoot it properly.

You can burn all the powder you want, but there is no substitute for good form.

Practice does not make perfect.


--------------
Upland Raconteur
"You demented little Dwarf"
-Hunshatt
Tim, you're still an Ass
-Tedder
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 27
Wotam Search for posts by this member.





Group: MEMBER
Location: So. California
Posts: 33
Joined: Jul. 2007
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 06 2012,11:19 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

Do not let other shooters bother you when you shoot low gun, use sub gauges, side by sides or sub 1 oz loads to shoot for fun.  If the gun fits & you have a "good technique" you are good to go.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 28
Larry Brown Search for posts by this member.





Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location:
Posts: 9169
Joined: Sep. 2002
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2012,9:48 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE

I'll qualify the following by saying that I shoot trap very infrequently; skeet a lot (non-registered); more SC and 5 Stand than trap, but less than skeet.  I've owned at least a couple of those Ithaca SKB 100 20ga guns with 25" barrels, and IMO they are not target guns, period.  Not a good choice for any of the above games.  They are both way light and way short, which can work OK for some folks in the grouse woods, and you may be able to get it to work OK at skeet.  But the problem with a light gun for targets is that they're very easy to start swinging, and also very easy to stop.  That's why you don't see people shooting really good scores, consistently, with short, light guns.  I have run a few straights at skeet shooting low gun with a 20ga Sauer, 26", that weighs 5 3/4.  But I have to remember what I'm shooting, and that I need to shoot very instinctively.  If I try to be deliberate with that gun, I'll miss for sure.

You can shoot all those games with a sxs, but longer barrels and more weight will help a lot.  More choke for trap, maybe a little less for skeet; what you have for chokes in that gun would work well on the SC and 5 stand courses I shoot, but again with longer barrels and more weight.  For me, on skeet, the same gun you have but in the 200 (pg/BT) model or 280 (straight/BT) model works a lot better.  The extra weight of that bigger forend out front seems to make a lot of difference.  But as I mentioned earlier, a lot of people really like those short-barreled Model 100 20's in the grouse woods, where carry weight is important and swing not as critical as it is on targets.


--------------
Larry Brown
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 29
LostintheOzone Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: 2014 CONTRIBUTING MEMBER
Location: WA.
Posts: 2426
Joined: Mar. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2012,12:06 Skip to the previous post in this topic. Skip to the next post in this topic.   QUOTE


(PartridgeCartridge @ Feb. 06 2012,7:11)
QUOTE

(LostintheOzone @ Feb. 06 2012,10:03)
QUOTE
You don't need a target gun to shoot well, you just need a gun that fits and burn some powder.  :D

Jim

Sorry bud, but's just not true.

He needs a gun that fits. And he needs to know how to shoot it properly.

You can burn all the powder you want, but there is no substitute for good form.

Practice does not make perfect.

You're right of course. Good form is probably just as important as practice and gun fit.

But your proclamation "there is no substitute" sounds a bit like a Wall Street ad. It's an all or nothing approach  that a lot of people use to sell something. Sort of like saying if you're going to shoot trap there is no substitute for a dedicated trap gun.  ???

Jim


--------------
I don't shoot steel. That's an eastern bloc thing.
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
 Post Number: 30
mike campbell Search for posts by this member.

Avatar



Group: MEMBER
Location: western NY
Posts: 1787
Joined: Feb. 2006
PostIcon Posted on: Feb. 07 2012,12:54 Skip to the previous post in this topic.    QUOTE

Shooters with good form, well skilled in the fundamentals, with a field pump gun (or any other) that fits will excel at any target discipline or wild game they tackle. No need for a dedicated target gun if it fits and you know how to shoot.

I just shot a sporting clays tournament a couple days ago. A recent NSCA National Champion was in attendance and broke 92 x100 with his Blaser O/U ( I believe they sponsor him). I'm pretty sure the champ isn't 21 yet.

My friend is in his 50's. Shooting a fixed full choke Remington 870, he won the shoot with 96x100.

NO substitute for good form, IMO.


--------------
Offline
Top of Page Profile Contact Info Send Private Message  
34 replies since Feb. 06 2012,12:07 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track This Topic :: Email This Topic :: Print this topic ]


Page 2 of 3<<123>>
reply to topic new topic new poll



Letters | Features | Departments | Photo Gallery | Upland Talk | Upland Links | Upland Gear
Upland Library | Upland Outfitters | Swap & Trade | Submissions | Contact Us | Home

©2004/05 Upland Journal
Site Designed in Patnership with Insyt New Media